Edwin
Rutsch and
Kevin
Waldman discuss Kevin's article published in the Chicago Tribune and
other newspapers entitled,
"The dangerous consequences of radical empathy unchecked by reason."
Kevin criticizes "radical empathy" on campuses as performative and
harmful, emphasizing the need for genuine empathy that maintains critical
assessment and reason. Edwin introduces his Wholistic Empathy definition
model, which includes sensing into others' experiences, self-empathy,
imaginative empathy and the level of overall empathy within a community.
He advocates for making mutual empathy a primary social and political
values.
"As a researcher, I am now compelled
to ask: Can a society have
too much empathy?"
In the end, they agree on the importance of mutual
empathy, listening and dialogue in fostering understanding and reducing
extremism. Edwin proposes using empathy circles to facilitate empathic
listening and dialogue, aiming to bridge political and social divides.
Kevin plans to host Empathy Circles at his University to foster
constructive dialogue.
Edwin Rutsch and Kevin
Waldman discuss the complexities of empathy, particularly in the
context of ideological extremism and higher education. Waldman
criticizes "radical empathy" as performative and potentially harmful,
emphasizing the need for genuine empathy that maintains cognitive
distance and critical assessment. Rutsch introduces his
wholistic empathy model, which includes sensing into
others' experiences, self-empathy, and imaginative empathy. They agree
on the importance of empathy in fostering mutual understanding and
reducing extremism. Rutsch proposes using empathy circles to
facilitate empathic listening and dialogue, aiming to bridge political
and social divides.
Action Items
[ ] Organize an empathy
circle session at Northwestern University with Waldman's support.
[ ] Follow up with Waldman
to coordinate the empathy circle session and potential research
collaboration.
Outline
Introduction and Background
Edwin Rutsch introduces
himself as the director of the Empathy Center and mentions his focus
on empathy, ideological extremism, and social influence.
Kevin Waldman provides a
background on Edwin's work, including his recent opinion piece in
the Chicago Tribune titled "The dangerous consequences of radical
empathy unchecked by reason."
Edwin expresses his
agreement with the importance of empathy as a global prerequisite
for functioning society and introduces his research on empathy
manipulation and weaponization.
Kevin discusses his
research since 2023, focusing on how empathy is used by ideological
extremists to manipulate and weaponize human emotions.
Defining and Criticizing Empathy
Kevin explains his
criticism of performative empathy, which he believes is a Western
guilt situation used by extremists to infiltrate American society,
particularly in higher education.
Edwin and Kevin discuss
the confusion around the definition of empathy among academics and
the performative nature of empathy on college campuses.
Kevin introduces his
holistic empathy definition model, which includes sensing into
another person's experience, self-empathy, and imaginative empathy.
The conversation
highlights the difference between healthy empathy and radical
empathy, which demands total emotional identification and
ideological loyalty.
Empathy Circle and Mutual Understanding
Kevin describes the
holistic empathy model, emphasizing the mutuality of relationships
and the importance of active listening in empathy circles.
Edwin and Kevin discuss
the antidote to the victim-oppressor mindset and the role of empathy
in fostering critical analysis and mutual understanding.
Kevin shares his
experience of witnessing the weaponization of empathy in Dearborn,
Michigan, and the impact on American society.
The conversation explores
the performative nature of empathy on college campuses and the need
for genuine empathy and critical thinking.
Challenges of Empathy in Higher Education
Kevin discusses the
challenges of empathy in higher education, including the
performative behavior of students and the lack of critical analysis.
Edwin and Kevin agree on
the need for more open and honest discussions on college campuses to
foster empathy and mutual understanding.
The conversation
highlights the impact of performative empathy on students' social
lives and relationships, leading to dishonesty and mistrust.
Kevin emphasizes the
importance of empathy circles in fostering genuine empathy and
mutual understanding among students and faculty.
Empathy and Political Divides
Edwin and Kevin discuss
the role of empathy in bridging political and social divides,
including the need for empathy circles among political leaders.
Kevin shares his
experience of using empathy circles to bring people together during
political demonstrations and the positive impact of empathic
listening.
The conversation explores
the challenges of fostering empathy in a polarized political
environment and the need for empathy training in educational
institutions.
Edwin and Kevin agree on
the importance of empathy in promoting mutual understanding and
reducing conflict in society.
Empathy and Mental Health
Kevin discusses the impact
of performative empathy on mental health, including the stress and
frustration it causes among students and faculty.
Edwin and Kevin agree on
the need for empathy training in mental health programs to foster
empathic listening and mutual understanding.
The conversation
highlights the importance of empathy in improving mental health and
reducing stress and anxiety among students.
Kevin shares his
experience of using empathy circles to support mental health and
promote empathic listening in therapeutic settings.
Empathy and Cultural Values
Edwin and Kevin discuss
the need for empathy to be a primary cultural value in society,
fostering mutual understanding and reducing conflict.
Kevin shares his vision of
an empathy movement to promote empathy as a core cultural value and
the challenges of achieving this goal.
The conversation explores
the role of empathy in promoting cultural diversity and
understanding, including the need for empathy training in
educational institutions.
Edwin and Kevin agree on
the importance of empathy in fostering a more empathic and inclusive
society.
Empathy and Social Change
Kevin discusses the
potential of empathy to drive social change and promote mutual
understanding and cooperation.
Edwin and Kevin agree on
the need for empathy training in educational institutions and the
role of empathy in promoting social change.
The conversation
highlights the challenges of fostering empathy in a polarized
society and the importance of empathy in promoting social cohesion
and understanding.
Kevin shares his vision of
an empathy movement to promote empathy as a core cultural value and
the potential impact of empathy on social change.
Empathy and Personal Relationships
Edwin and Kevin discuss
the impact of empathy on personal relationships, including the
importance of empathic listening in fostering mutual understanding.
Kevin shares his
experience of using empathy circles to improve personal
relationships and promote empathic listening.
The conversation
highlights the challenges of fostering empathy in personal
relationships and the importance of empathy training in promoting
mutual understanding.
Edwin and Kevin agree on
the need for empathy training in personal relationships to foster
empathic listening and mutual understanding.
Empathy and Professional Development
Kevin discusses the
importance of empathy in professional development, including the
need for empathy training in educational institutions.
Edwin and Kevin agree on
the need for empathy training in professional development programs
to foster empathic listening and mutual understanding.
The conversation
highlights the challenges of fostering empathy in professional
settings and the importance of empathy training in promoting
professional development.
Kevin shares his vision of
an empathy movement to promote empathy as a core cultural value and
the potential impact of empathy on professional development.
Zoom Meeting summary for Edwin Rutsch's Personal
Meeting Room (04/22/2025)
Quick recap
Edwin and Kevin discussed the concept of empathy, its potential
manipulation by ideological extremists, and its role in fostering
dialogue and understanding. They also explored the importance of empathy
in bridging social and political divides, and the need for a more
nuanced understanding of empathy to avoid its misuse. The discussion
concluded with the agreement on the importance of empathy and active
listening in fostering mutual understanding and resolving conflicts, and
the potential benefits of implementing the empathy circle practice at
Northwestern University.
Next steps
• Kevin to organize an empathy circle at Northwestern University with
interested students and faculty.
• Edwin to send Kevin an email with potential dates for conducting a
practice empathy circle.
• Kevin to invite a colleague from his clinical counseling master's
program to participate in the practice empathy circle with Edwin.
• Kevin to incorporate empathy circles into his summer research
project, pending grant approval.
• Edwin to connect Kevin with the PhD student studying empathy for
potential collaboration.
• Kevin to refine his approach in writing about empathy, clarifying
distinctions between empathy, sympathy, and related concepts.
• Edwin to provide support and resources to Kevin for implementing
empathy circles at Northwestern.
Summary
Empathy's Dangers and Holistic Definition
Edwin and Kevin discussed the concept of empathy, with Kevin expressing
concerns about its manipulation and weaponization by ideological
extremists. Kevin argued that radical empathy can lead to a mandate for
ideological loyalty, particularly in college campuses. Edwin proposed a
holistic empathy definition model, which includes sensing into another
person's experience, self-empathy, imaginative empathy, and the
relationship aspect of empathy. The discussion aimed to clarify the
terms and explore the potential dangers of misusing empathy.
Radicalization of Empathy in Higher Education
Kevin expressed concerns about the radicalization of empathy in higher
education, particularly on college campuses. He argued that this
approach stifles critical thinking and dialogue, leading to a lack of
emotional reasoning and dishonesty among students. Kevin suggested that
this phenomenon is not only affecting students' relationships but also
their ability to trust others and navigate the world. He emphasized the
need for a more nuanced approach to empathy, one that allows for diverse
perspectives and open dialogue.
Empathy Circle for Dialogue and Understanding
Edwin and Kevin discussed the concept of empathy and its role in
fostering dialogue and understanding. They agreed that the term "radical
empathy" could be misleading, as it often refers to a lack of empathy.
Edwin proposed the idea of an "empathy circle" as a structured approach
to facilitate mutual understanding and listening. Kevin expressed
interest in implementing this approach on college campuses and agreed
that empathy is essential for mental health and moral development. They
also discussed the potential negative consequences of viewing people as
victims and the importance of creating a mutually listening environment
to avoid the drama triangle.
Empathy: Bridging Social and Political Divides
Edwin and Kevin discussed the importance of empathy in bridging social
and political divides. They agreed that empathy is not about feeling
sorry for others, but about actively listening and understanding their
experiences. They also acknowledged the challenges of distinguishing
empathy from sympathy and emotional identification. Kevin shared his
experiences with performing empathy and the need for more nuanced
understanding of empathy. They concluded that empathy could be a
powerful tool for bringing people together and overcoming differences,
but it requires a deeper understanding and practice.
Empathy Circle for Conflict Resolution
Kevin and Edwin discussed the importance of empathy and active listening
in fostering mutual understanding and resolving conflicts. Edwin shared
his experiences with the empathy circle practice, emphasizing its
effectiveness in creating a safe space for open dialogue and
understanding. Kevin expressed interest in implementing this practice at
Northwestern University, recognizing the potential benefits for his
research on anti-Semitism. They agreed to collaborate on holding an
empathy circle with their respective groups, with Edwin offering to
facilitate the process.
